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| ■ Re[78]: Caral |
| No. | ：96 | |||
| Name | ：Jerry | |||
| Date | ：2004/10/08(Fri) 14:26 | |||
| ：JerryAxtell777 | ||||
> This possibly is one of the oldest grand cities on earth. Although the inhabitants cultivated squash, beans and root crops they apparently lived primarily on seafood and did not cultivate grain. To me this argues for very early littoral migrations to America. There are several links from this site: > > http://www.smithsonianmag.si.edu/smithsonian/issues02/aug02/caral.html > > Did people who occupied now submerged lands gain greater mobility as the ocean rose and they were encouraged to build boats? Were early South Americans and some ancestors of Japanese closely related at that time? Did these people already have some amount of ancestry that we call Mongoloid as opposed to proto-Mongoloid? Did that ancestry come to the fore later when the mountains were occupied? Was there an earlier ancestor than Ainu in what is now Japan? I suppose those questions rank with speculation about extra-terrestrials but I thought this might be of interest to some. At the end of the last Ice Age when the seas began to rise, the people who occupied the trans-Asia-American land bridge probably divided the world among themselves and began to migrate; three tribes went east and three tribes went west and one stayed on for a while before migrating down the west coast of North America to Vancouver Island. That's why there are four families of the Native American languages that are related to Japanese. The first three to migrate east traveled down a passage in the Yukon Mnt's that brought them to somewhere near the Great Lakes; from there the Iriquois went east to occupy the eastern Great Lakes, the Sioux/Winnebago occupied the western end of the Great Lake and the Caddo/Quivera(n) went south to the botton of the Great Plains. (I have no idea where the rest of the Native Americans came from; though there are a lot of theories). Of the western tribes, one went south, becoming the Jomon people, who later became the Ainu and the Ryukyu-ans/Okinawans; one went all the way west to Pyrennees; and one settled in Manchuria and eventually merged with the natives of Manchuria, their languages also merged... leaving the basic vocabulary, but infusing an entirely differnt grammar system; of this union, one branch moved to northern Europe and the remainder would eventually re-unite with the group on the Japanese island of Honshu to become the Yayoi people of Japan. Most of this is based on the linguistic characteristics of today's modern (or not so modern) languages. That covers all of the languages that were or are related to Japanese; except for the language south of Okinawa which would spread across the oceans from Easter Island in the east to Hawaii in the north and to New Zealand in the south to Madagascar in the west and which would eventually migrate to the region of the Mediterranean, but not before taking on a new grammar system (a branch of the infamous Manchurian language: the Ural(ic). That's why the Northern European Languages and so different, yet so similar to the Southern European Languages. And that is why Ainu, Japanese, English, Latin, Tocharian, and Celetic are all classified as medial "aRe"-passive languages (they all have an "R"/"are" in the center of the predicate to signal the passive voice). But I still have no idea why there are so many Native American Languages!!! |
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| ■ Re[91][88][87]: Nachi falls |
| No. | ：95 | |||
| Name | ：gen | |||
| Date | ：2004/10/08(Fri) 13:50 | |||
Jerry > > Another possibility is that the initial "na" means water as in the verb "nureru: to wet or moisten", and the "chi", of course, means "route". The verb "nureru" comes from the passive of using "water" as a verb: i.e., "mizu-reru" which contracts to "nureru" (remember that the voiced counter part of "M" used to be "N"; the daku-on/chon-chon for "M" was "N", and because "midzu" contains a voiced consonant, the contraction should as well). This is interesting. Indeed "nu" in old Japanese represented "$B>B(B", a small lake/pond, although "reru" would be a rather modern suffix. The word for 'to wet or moisten' in old Japanese was "nuru", which, perhaps, consists of the root "nu" and a verb suffix "-ru". Your interepretation of "Nachi" is then a wet road, is this right? $B!!(B |
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| ■ Re[92][79][78]: Caral |
| No. | ：94 | |||
| Name | ：gen | |||
| Date | ：2004/10/08(Fri) 13:43 | |||
Jerry, > Since the Mandan Indians spoke a language related to Japanese, their cord-marked pottery is probably the American version of Jomon pottery. Can you give us a little more detail about the Mandan Indian language as being related to Japanese? I'd appreciate it if you make references to only necessary paragraph/sentences, rather than quoting all the previous message. Thanks. |
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| ■ COMMUNICATION |
| No. | ：93 | |||
| Name | ：gen | |||
| Date | ：2004/10/08(Fri) 13:40 | |||
Jerry, I took the liberty of deleting your posting in response to RICARDO RODRIGUEZ re COMMUNICATION, since the contents may be interpreted as including politically controversial elements, which I do not wish to discuss on this BBS. Yet, your comments may be welcomed by RICARDO who gives the E-mail address at his posting. Regards. |
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| ■ Re[79][78]: Caral |
| No. | ：92 | |||
| Name | ：Jerry | |||
| Date | ：2004/10/08(Fri) 12:54 | |||
| ：JerryAxtell777 | ||||
> Hello Evander, > > Interesting, indeed. > I feel you might like reading "THE WALKING PEOPLE A Native American Oral History" by Paula Underwood. Paula, an Iroquois descendent, recorded an oral history of her tribe (spoken in Iroquois language) translated into English. As a matter of fact, I read Japanese translation. The tribe's "walking" history is told: from somewhere near the Mediterranean Sea some 10,000 years ago to the east coast of the Eurasia continent, then closer spotting islands of the now-Berling straight, then to the Americas. > > Off-hand responses to some of your points: > > > Were early South Americans and some ancestors of Japanese closely related at that time? > > As you are aware, there is one (any more?) piece of pottery found in Peru that resembles Japan's Jomon pottery. Whether this is relative to just a single rare case of a then-Japnanese (Jomon people) fortunately ending up with another place from Japan archpelago, or this is just one of many such cases, is not known to me. > > > Did these people already have some amount of ancestry that we call Mongoloid as opposed to proto-Mongoloid? > > I'd rather doubt that. I tend to consider that peoples that have only Blue and Green Gm blood type are proto-Mongoloids, the peoples typically include Kayaba in Brazil and the Australian aboriginee. Peoples having Blue, Green, Red and Yellow would represent neo-Mongoloid. Still my guess, hopefully an intelligent guess. > > > Did that ancestry come to the fore later when the mountains were occupied? > > When do the mountains start occupying? > > > Was there an earlier ancestor than Ainu in what is now Japan? > > From Mt-DNA researches, ancestrial continuation from Jomon to Ainu is positive. Jomon era started some 10,000 (12,000) years ago. An older culture existed in Japan, which dates back about 30,000 years. Since no "body" has been found, which belong to this time, no positive or negative theory exists as to identity of the people 30,000 years ago. > > Regards. > Remember that when the Iriquois came from Asia, that the Japan Sea was closed at the top by a land bridge between Hokkaido and Siberia, thus forming a veritical version of the Mediterranian Sea; this may be the sea of their oral history. Since the Mandan Indians spoke a language related to Japanese, their cord-marked pottery is probably the American version of Jomon pottery. |
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| ■ Re[88][87]: Nachi falls |
| No. | ：91 | |||
| Name | ：Jerry | |||
| Date | ：2004/10/08(Fri) 12:37 | |||
| ：JerryAxtell777 | ||||
> Hello David, > > Thank you for asking. > > > Is it possible that the famous falls of Nachi in Wakayama Ken were in fact named after the Ainu language for falls which is Nachi? > > Perhaps, the most popular way to say a waterfall is "so", which can also mean other things such as a rock hidden in water, a floor, and a face (as in plane). > > Close to "nachi", there is a word "rap" that means to drop. Indeed, Sorachi in Hokkaido is interpretted as "so-rapchi". Although I cannot find a word "rapchi", since "rapte" means to drop (vt.) {let it down}, "rapchi" may be a variation to this. > > Since, "r" and "n" sometimes interchange each other in Japanese and Ainu, "nachi" may be derived from "rapchi". Note, however, that there is no credible evidence of this. > > Also let me advise that one should not rely on a single point Ainu place name solution. Place names are likely named in Ainu if there are a number of examples in a given area; or, as I practice, if old tales/stories such as in Kojiki support. > > Another possibility is that the initial "na" means water as in the verb "nureru: to wet or moisten", and the "chi", of course, means "route". The verb "nureru" comes from the passive of using "water" as a verb: i.e., "mizu-reru" which contracts to "nureru" (remember that the voiced counter part of "M" used to be "N"; the daku-on/chon-chon for "M" was "N", and because "midzu" contains a voiced consonant, the contraction should as well). |
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| ■ Re[89]: awaji- meaning |
| No. | ：90 | |||
| Name | ：gen | |||
| Date | ：2004/09/22(Wed) 11:23 | |||
Hello Stephan, > what does the word awaji mean? Thank you for asking. According to Nihon-Shoki, the first born of Izanagi (male god) and Iaanami (female god) was a "placenta", which the gods "shamed" of. Japanese word for "shame" is "haji", and "a" means "we". Thus, "a-haji" was interpretted (perhaps by the writer of Nihon Shoki) to mean "we are ashamed". I have a bit different proposal, employing Ainu language. In Ainu, "apa" means "a door". Since in Ainu, "po-apa" means a birth canal, I am inclined to associate "awa" of "awaji" to Ainu "apa". Here, be reminded that "awaji" was pronounced "ahaji" in old days, say, until 200 years ago; and "aha" was pronounced as "apa" in old days, such as in the 7-8 century. Thus, "apaji" is the oldest form. "Ji" which is the same as "chi" means a road or a route. Do I answer your question? |
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| ■ awaji- meaning |
| No. | ：89 | |||
| Name | ：Stephan | |||
| Date | ：2004/09/22(Wed) 11:00 | |||
| ：srw26@shaw.ca | ||||
what does the word awaji mean? i know it is an island in japan but what is the actual meaning of the word? > > > > thank you very much for your help |
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| ■ Re[87]: Nachi falls |
| No. | ：88 | |||
| Name | ：gen | |||
| Date | ：2004/08/13(Fri) 22:26 | |||
Hello David, Thank you for asking. > Is it possible that the famous falls of Nachi in Wakayama Ken were in fact named after the Ainu language for falls which is Nachi? Perhaps, the most popular way to say a waterfall is "so", which can also mean other things such as a rock hidden in water, a floor, and a face (as in plane). Close to "nachi", there is a word "rap" that means to drop. Indeed, Sorachi in Hokkaido is interpretted as "so-rapchi". Although I cannot find a word "rapchi", since "rapte" means to drop (vt.) {let it down}, "rapchi" may be a variation to this. Since, "r" and "n" sometimes interchange each other in Japanese and Ainu, "nachi" may be derived from "rapchi". Note, however, that there is no credible evidence of this. Also let me advise that one should not rely on a single point Ainu place name solution. Place names are likely named in Ainu if there are a number of examples in a given area; or, as I practice, if old tales/stories such as in Kojiki support. |
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